New Optical Drive for the 360

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sadalius
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New Optical Drive for the 360

Post by sadalius »

360 Lite-On Drives emerge
>> From shauno on forums.xbox-scene.com...
Hi today I recieved a console back from microsoft repair center in Australia, it had a BENQ drive which didnt seem to flash via dosflash. Upon inspection i believe I have found a new drive revision!

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Model no. DG-16D2S
HW Version. A0A1
FW Version. 74850
Xbox-Scene

We are currently trying to find data sheets on this controller to further analyze security. It appears to be a masked-rom (read-only) setup, similar to that of the xbox original, version 1.6.

SOURCE: http://www.xbox-scene.com


** This is the new Philips/Lite-On drive**
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CoFree
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Re: New Optical Drive for the 360

Post by CoFree »

Ok guys
last night I got my first lite-on dvd drive. :?
the first thing i did was just hook it up.
When i ejected the dvd tray i could tell from the way it came out very fast then slowed down.that it was different.
I know some do that but this thing was fast opening.
The other thing the person was thinking is that it was new.It was new but it had been opened before(crap job too) and returned to the store. 8-)
I did go on and open the console to see the drive and sure enough it was a lite-on.
Here is a picture that i got from google image of a lite-on dvd drive top.
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Man i hope they get this thing figured out soon.I think we are going to start seeing more of these soon. :cry: :cry:
The manufactured date was "March 2008"
"FIGHTING TYRANNY in a TECHNOLOGICAL NOTTINGHAM"
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Re: New Optical Drive for the 360

Post by sadalius »

I hope they get it figured out too. I hate to sound pessimistic, but I don't know if they will be able to figure it out if they can't get a dump of the firmware.
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MsK
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Re: New Optical Drive for the 360

Post by MsK »

It appears as tho this new drive handles the firmware/key exchange/service mode in a completly different way -
M$ & Mediatek have apparently developed & patented a new technology to safeguard the firmware.

Below is some very interesting reading
sub source : http://pastebin.com/f7555e65e" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
main source http://www.xboxhacker.net/index.php?PHP ... pic=9647.0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

trios--

Now onto the patent:
The way I read it, the FW can go in but does not ever come out. The host needs to verify the programming, so instead of reading it out, and exposing it, a hw "chksum" is calced as the device is being programmed inside the device. This value, NOT the code, is returned to the host, and the host also calcs it to determine if the verify was succesfull. Using this method there is no reason for the drive to EVER dump its code back to the host.

So at power up the device checks its rom, if its "blank" or marked as so, the programming "gate" becomes enabled. This allows an entire FW to be injected into the device by the host. The programming verification is performed internally, as the device calcs the xsum of the code, and reports the result to host. The host compares the xsum to expected, and if correct, it knows the device was programmed correctly. This is an effective verify operation, without reading back the code, as is usually done in most mem devices.

So what about reprogramming?
There is also a method for the host to erase or mark the device as erased. When this operation is completed, the device detects the condition and enables the programming "gate", see above. At this point the ENTIRE fw may be once again re written.

So if you had a complete dump, and knew how to mark the device as "erased" you could possibly rewrite the enitre FW.
However, how will you get the dump? Say you got one with a physical attack on the chip, well youd only have the aes keys for that particular unit. IE you still dont have a key to use on another target, so the painfull PHY attack would need to be repeated for each unit. Of course the console can set this key during manufacturing mode, but you have no way of finding out what it set it to as you cant read it back.

Bottom line is what goes in does not come out. No reason for it to ever. The "old" reason was to verify programming of memory, but now a different method is being used to verify, that does not require the host to read back the programming to determine success.


trios--

The patent isnt bullshit, misimplemented, a distraction, or any thing else.

The drive was designed ON PURPOSE not to be read out. Get over it!
No amount of random $#!t is gonna dump that drive. Random $#!t never hacked any part of this system.

A physical attack (aka flylogic) to get the key or the flash contents would need to be repeated for each drive.
This is destructive, and not cost effective. Additionally flash contents are invisible to scanning electron microscope.

The drive key is set by a special command, common to all models. After that it never appears on the bus again.
There is NO WAY EVER to brute force, sniff, or guess the key. This situation has been discussed MANY times prior to this drives appearance. Think about it, if there were such a thing, there wouldnt be all the "lost my drive key, oh what will I do?" posts.

As Arakon has stated, "there is NO other way to launch the sploit other than kk"
I would add that KK is the ONLY sploit that works. The KK sploit demands that the drive be equipped with a dvd key. The title involved is signed to ONLY run from xdvd. The title will not run from anywhere else. THERE IS NO WAY TO RUN THE KK SPLOIT FROM HDD OR ANYWHERE ELSE! There is no *secret* sploit, gamesave sploit or any other kind of sploit. This has been true since the sploit was discovered and remains true today.

The *only* way any of you are ever gonna play "backups" again is if a new system exploit is found or if MTK leaks details of a backdoor. Both scenarios are highly unlikely.
There has been little to no progress on that front in quite some time now, and not being able to launch a modified xdvd, due to the new drives inability to play "backups", makes it more unlikely than ever before.

"The experts" are not even working on this, there is essentially no place to star
patent information - http://www.xbins.org/iriez/mediatekpatent.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

section of patent about dumping fw -- http://www.360patches.com/Xmods/lite-on.bmp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I don't wan't to appear negative about this but if what is stated above is true it looks like a serious goal scored by M$.
If the system is going to be exploited again a new approach is needed (if that's even possible - considering homebrew has never got that far!)


A friend purchased a box at the weekend & brought it round to be flashed - Prior to purchase I instructed him not to take it out of it's original packaging until I had checked & confirmed the details on the barcode sticker located on side of the outer carton. Alas it was Lot 0821 (LiteOn)
I advised him to return it & seek an older system (very difficult to do!) - he got his money back & now searches for pre-lot 0814 (rocking horse shit) or awaits more news.

My advice - if you can find consoles Lot No : 0813 or below obtain them quickly - before they dissapear (if they havn't already) ;)
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Sesshomaru
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Re: New Optical Drive for the 360

Post by Sesshomaru »

Damn, doesn't look good. For a lot of people the ability to use backups is the 360's only real advantage over the PS3. At least to me it is. If they are both at ground zero in that department, PS3 wins in a long shot.
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Re: New Optical Drive for the 360

Post by MsK »

Sesshomaru wrote:Damn, doesn't look good. For a lot of people the ability to use backups is the 360's only real advantage over the PS3. At least to me it is. If they are both at ground zero in that department, PS3 wins in a long shot.
Actually I don't agree with that - I have been planning to make a ps3/xbox comparison post (since i'm dipping my toes on both sides of the fence now) just havn't got round to it yet & to be honest i'm still gathereing my thoughts as I playtest the ps3 to it's limits. I'll save that for another thread ;)
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Re: New Optical Drive for the 360

Post by Sesshomaru »

That's cool, just a personal opinion. I don't own a PS3, but I have a very good idea of both systems features.
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Re: New Optical Drive for the 360

Post by CoFree »

well some of us have been reading and hearing about playing a ps3 game from a hard drive.
I said this in a different thread,but
there will be some cool thing going on in the next year. :D
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Re: New Optical Drive for the 360

Post by Sesshomaru »

If the entire game is playable from the Hard Disk, that is really a nice feature. It also means the 60GB and 120GB models will have a purpose once the 20GB model is fully phased out.
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Re: New Optical Drive for the 360

Post by Digital Menace »

yea playing from hd is good.....saves the drive from being used if the scheme is right and i hope and maybe create less heat while playing.

i still don't see no reason to get a ps3....theres less than 5 games i would want for it pretty much.

that would change though if it was moddable as i like many others like to mod every system i own lol.

yup.
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Re: New Optical Drive for the 360

Post by Sesshomaru »

Digital Menace wrote:i still don't see no reason to get a ps3....theres less than 5 games i would want for it pretty much.
No argument there. I won't lie, I'm bitter from two RRoD's. :P

Final Fantasy XIII might be worth checking out. I'd like to see a continuation of the Dragon Quest series on 360 or PS3, the incarnation on the DS is a disgrace to the series name.
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